( Entertainers of the Year )

Making friends at the VMAs

breathe every element in life. I rock a bespoke suit and I go to Harold’s for fried chicken. It’s all these things at once, because, as a tastemaker, I find the best of everything. There’s certain things that black people are the best at and certain things that white people are the best at. Whatever we as black people are the best at, I’ma go get that. Like, on Christmas I don’t want any food that tastes white. And when I go to purchase a house, I don’t want my credit to look black. [Laughs]

And what foods would fall into that category? White-people food? You know what it is. You never ate fried chicken and said, “This tastes white.” It’s America. People know the stereotypes. I play to the stereotypes. I believe in the stereotypes. And I submit to them. [Affects a black, Southern accent] “Man, black people sure can cook some chicken! And I’ma get some black chicken.”

I’m trying to gauge if you’re being sincere or facetious. It is
what it is. A lot of things that are funny have truth in them. So my
music is a mix between some good Harold’s Chicken and...

A bespoke suit? A bespoke suit!
“ON CHRISTMAS I DON’T WA_.NT ANY _{FOOD THAT TASTES WHITE AND}
WHEN I GO TO BUY A HOUSE, I DON_.’T _{WANT MY CREDIT TO LOOK BLACK} ”

How do you find your samples—for example, the sample of Steely Dan’s “Kid Charlemagne” on “Champion”? One of my producers, Brian “All Day” Miller, made that track. I heard it and was overwhelmed. Me and my father’s relationship is a little strained. So when I started writing on [the track], something came out of me to speak on that, but to say, in the end, that my father was a champion in my eyes, even with our ups and downs.

What else changed in your approach? Before, the music was more self-
indulgent, and now it’s more about everyone.
You’re talking about the lyrics? I’m talking lyrics and chorus-wise—
giving them something to sing along with. Even a song like “Can’t Tell Me
Nothing,” that’s a rock chorus over straight ghetto drums.

Your parents divorced when you were three. But in the
past, you’ve portrayed your relationship with your father as
harmonious. Where were the rough patches? I ain’t gonna
speak on that. But I will say that that is what got the sample
cleared. I wrote a letter to [Steely Dan’s] Donald Fagen and
explained to him the importance of this song to me, and of expressing
these feelings to my father. I think it’s what made the difference in getting
the sample cleared. All of these living artists—I think they’ve learned to
trust the Kanye brand. They know their sample is not gonna be placed with
some quote-unquote booty video.

So your goal was to make the choruses bigger? “Jesus Walks” is no
slouch. And Late Registration was loaded with hooks. I wouldn’t say
loaded. “Gold Digger” was the biggest song on the record, and no other
track had anywhere near the potential to be that big.

Some of the samples—Elton John’s “Someone Saved My Life Tonight,” Michael Jackson’s “P. Y. T.”—must not have been cheap. Could you have afforded them on the first two albums? I’ll tell you one thing, as a black person: We have no problem breaking ourselves for what we want. But it’s not just affording it; it’s getting people to want to clear something for you.

You made a conscious effort to shape Graduation for the next level of
mainstream success? A conscious effort to take it to the next level in every
form of success. More black people bought this album than any I’ve made.
Does that make sense to you? Uh-huh. Because I made the album blacker.

You think Graduation is blacker than The College Dropout? Way blacker. “Can’t Tell Me Nothing”—how hood is that record? “Good Life” is straight Steve Harvey, all day long. “Flashing Lights”? I never had a record that was that black. But it’s white at the same time. Certain things are so good it doesn’t have to be white or black. That’s what Graduation is. Take “Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger.” It’s a white sample, but everything I do to it is to make it as black as possible. So I’ma make the bass as black as possible; I’ma make the lyrics as intense as possible.

You were only seven when Thriller peaked. Was Michael Jackson on your radar when— [Stares incredulously] Was Michael Jackson on my radar?! I’m black. Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, and Mike Tyson. Michael Jackson is my favorite artist of all time. Every time I hit the stage, every time I write a song, every time I write a rap, every performance I do, every time I pick out an outfit, I think about Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson is synonymous with the greatest that you could possibly do in music.

 

Many artists would say that maintaining a healthy relationship with MTV is key to that kind of goal. Your backstage meltdown at this year’s VMAs cannot have helped. I didn’t have a meltdown. They call it a meltdown, but I don’t know why. Somebody caught me on tape backstage. I said exactly the kind of thing that goes on backstage all the time. It was a real moment. But, I guess, as a pop star you have a responsibility to not be real anymore.

Are these choices strictly artistic, or are you thinking as a marketer,
too? Can you separate those roles? I can’t. I’m a pop enigma. I live and
The backlash probably wouldn’t have been as harsh if you hadn’t
erupted the year before at the MTV Europe Music Awards. The European